Have we confused facts and the idea of absolute truth?
Now, don't worry, I'm not bringing absolute truth into question. I just wonder if we've done some dangerous blurring of the lines.
Christian Apologists will often attempt to prove that absolute truth exists by pointing to some easily demonstrable 'truth.' For example, CS Lewis (among others) often points to mathematics: ie. 2+2 always makes 4. I recently watched a video where Charles Colson referred to dropping a pencil: ie. due to gravity, it will always fall.
Because of these demonstrable facts they say that this proves the existence of absolute truth. The reason that I think this is so dangerous is because this method is clearly flawed. Facts change all the time.
Poor Pluto. It used to be a planet.
Back in the good old days when I was growing up there were 9 planets in our Solar System. Then, just a little while ago, they kicked Pluto out of the club.
His size wasn't quite right, his orbit wasn't quite right, blah, blah, blah. It used to be a fact that Pluto was a planet. Now the facts have changed. But Truth hasn't.
But what about mathematics. Surely this should be a safe indicator of absolute truth, right?
Well, maybe:
According to (the always authoritative) Wikipedia:
When dealing with certain measurements in Physics "...unless otherwise specified, "2" has only one significant digit, which means it represents a measurement with a margin of error of 0.5, which means the actual value may lie between 1.5 and 2.5. When adding such measurements together, the margins of error are also added, so 2 ± 0.5 + 2 ± 0.5 = 4 ± 1.0"
So, in some situations, 2+2 might actually make 5! ... or 3!
It looks like Orwell may have been right after all.
Facts are not the same as Truth. Let's not confuse the two. It's too easy; too simplistic.
The person who is TRUTH cannot be put in a box.
Christ is too big to be pinned down to gravity or mathematics.
Truth is a mystery. Knowing truth is a relationship not an equation.
So, what do you think?
Have I gone off the deep end this time?
Are there any better examples or proofs of truth that you have run into?
19 comments:
So this is what they teach at Bethany? 2+2=5? Hmmm. I think that facts are the same as truth. Only we overestimate our own ability to properly distinguish facts. The Earth used to be flat you know. We see but a poor reflection as in a mirror. Facts can be used as illustrations to help us see God. But they must remain helpful tools to see God and not something that when we find out the earth is round it crushes our belief in God. After all, the fact is that diseases kill people, but that didn't matter much to Jesus as He healed people and made them well. Oh, and maybe let Juanita teach Caleb math.
Tim S.
Cool post.
I just think it's interesting to see how different trends throughout history have affected our view of what truth (fact, knowledge) is.
I remember reading about the trend of 'positivism' (needing to always have empirical, sufficient evidence in order to believe anything at all) has impacted Western culture so incredibly much.
Isn't there some joke saying that facts and wigs are the 2 great inventions of the Enlightenment period? Maybe I have the period wrong... oh well.
There's a part of a poem by Tennyson that talks about how anything that is actually 'worth' believing can't be proven:
'For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
Nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt.'
I read that out of the intro of a theology text. Thought it was cool.
Uh, Mike, are you sure you didn't just get that Tennyson quote from my blog footer?
It is a great quote, though, and I tend to agree with it.
And, Tim S, if "facts are the same as truth," then how can facts be used as "illustrations to help us see God"? Isn't Christ the personification of Truth (Jn 14:6)?
If facts are illustrations of the existence Truth (God) then they are clearly not Truth itself otherwise they wouldn't be illustrations... they would BE what they are illustrating.
So, to use your Biblical analogy, are facts the mirror image and truth is the reality?
Whoops, yeah, definitely didn't see it on the footer--saw it at the start of a McGrath book.
Your discovery was probably more pure, since I'm sure you stumbled upon it as you were enjoying your nightly read of Tennyson and Whitman, all the while smoking a pipe by the fireplace.
One day I'll be cool enough to pull that off...
I like what you say about knowing truth being a relationship.
Since 2+2=5 or 3, I stand by my statement. Yes facts are truth in that God is the creator of all things. That is fact. We now know the Earth is round, that "fact", assuming that it is true, is a result of God's created order which is fact. However, at one point in time we believed that the Earth was flat. At that point in time the flatness was assumed fact and part of God's created order. We have discovered that we did not understand all the real "facts" but only assumed "facts" because of our limited knowledge. We now assume that the Earth is round because of the knowledge we now have. We consider this "fact". God knows and has always known the shape of the Earth. Therefore, He knows the real facts which are true. We thought we knew the facts at one point and now realize we did not. Did the fact change? No, God knew it all along, it was true from the beginning. But our understanding of the facts changed. Therefore, we must use our current understanding of facts as an illustration of God. Of course, Since God knows the true facts we can rest assured that what He tells us is truth. His Word is truth. But beyond that it is our human struggle to find God's truth or facts. Sometimes we think we have it, then we get more information. The facts have not changed, only our own understanding of the facts. I may sound like an idiot, but now it's your turn to explain exactly why 2+2=5, or 3.
Tim S.
Mikul: I actually ran across that wonderful Tennyson quote in an article by Ravi Zacharias... and if I smoked my pipe inside the house my wife would shoot me. That's a FACT... I think.
Tim S: I think we're pretty much agreeing with each other but are stuck on semantics.
What I'm trying to do is find a way of articulating the differences between Immutable Truth (that has it's source in the person of Jesus Christ) and the fickle truth claims of human perception (I am calling these 'facts').
I think it's obvious to all that 'God sourced reality' (what I'm calling TRUTH) and human perception of that reality (what I'm calling FACT) are not the same.
We need to be able to clearly convey these distinctions. I think Galileo and Copernicus would agree with me.
Oh, and I should make this very clear: These are the ramblings and musings of Timothy R. Braun.
**These thoughts do not in any way represent the official stance of Bethany College or Martensville Baptist Church and the Staff/Faculty there-of.**
How come Jesus didn't answer when Pilate asked 'What is truth?'
D.
I don't know... I'll just have to ask Him sometime!!
But as for speculation:
Firstly, I think it was a rhetorical question.
Secondly, to illustrate the point I've been trying to make, Jesus says in that passage, "EVERYONE WHO IS OF THE TRUTH LISTENS TO MY VOICE." Then Pilate says his bit.[Jn 18:37,38]
If we look at Christ as embodying all Truth (Jn 14:6 again) then we could look at what Jesus says here as "everyone who is of [God] listens to my voice."
Pilate is clealy not going to grasp this and so his cry "What is Truth" could just as easily be "Who is God?"
I am certainly not trying to twist scripture here. These are just the random thoughts that role around in my head:)
So let me get this straight... "truth" is external to humanity. If all humans ceased to exist or to interpret, truth would still exist because truth is summed up in Jesus. But "facts", on the other hand, are not external to us because they are a human creation. Facts are basically laws based on observations of certain tendencies, and are prone to change because of different observations, more info, what some scientist says, etc...
So are facts, being observations, just interpretations of the truth?
And what about gravity? If at the end of time God says, yep, you were right about one thing, gravity exists (or existed). Is gravity true or was it just some sort of natural law? Ahh, are natural laws no longer a part of the scope of truth? I'm a little distressed. I don't think that I have the slightest clue of what I mean by truth anymore. What is it?
Fact: Bears can climb faster than they can run.
Semantics hey? OK I can buy that. But how could your wife shoot you. Do you have a gun in the house? Or buy "shoot" do you mean use a propulsion device that would inflict pain?
The challenge of distinguishing and articulating between immutable truth and fickle truth claims of man has been the challenge of presenting the Gospel to the world since the Word became flesh. I guess we need to find out how to best do that in our generation, like the generations before us had to do.
Tim S.
Tim S: Yes
Heather: Bears, Beats, Battlestar Galactica
OK maybe some more semantics are needed. I think facts can be 'truthful.' If we use the image from a few comments back (provided by TimS) of facts being like the reflection of the actual image of Truth then it is quite possible that many of the 'facts' are acurate.
I would call this acuracy 'truthfulness.' They cannot be Truth itself because they are simply a reflection but they can still be accurate even though they are based on a human perception...
... I think.
So would the truth be that if I studied this blog a long time I might understand it better, or is that a fact? Because right now I'm not sure which is which or what is up and what is down. It seems that facts, in this discussion, are changeable and truth is unchangeable. I'm I right on that, or completely off base?
Oh yes, is this ever a conversation on semantics.
Even still I don't know if I agree with facts having to be relegated to 'truthfulness' (speaking of semantics...) rather than truth itself.
My thinking is that we are missing the point if we reserve the word 'truth' only for the person of Jesus strictly based on the 'I am the way...' passage.
I don't know...maybe that's not what you're saying, but that's what I'm understanding.
I think it has more to do with Jesus saying 'I am the truth of God, the authenticity, the certainty, the actual anointed one in line with what God's doing...'
My feeling is that it's too black-and-white of an argument to think that because Jesus said he is truth, only Jesus (or the Spirit, or whatever is being said) is the Truth, and all other 'seemingly' authentic realities and facts are 'truthful' at best.
I think it's good to have the humility to admit that, yes, our human perceptions of fact aren't always going to be correct. But I don't agree with the idea that our earthly, flawed, human perceptions can only be reflections at best of the Absolute Immutable Truth. That sounds like Platonism to me.
Well, well, well. It turns out that my reflections on truth may be flawed... after all, they are just reflections, not the thing itself!
Thank you all for indulging me in my inane banter. It it fun, is it not?
Oh, by the way, I'm surprised that no one picked up on the fact that 2+2 CAN NEVER = 5. In order for my example from physics to be true the number 2 has to cease to be 2 and become 2.5 . That room for error allow room for 2 to become something other than itself.
Whatever.
Haha someone should have been all over that hole in the argument!
Just the other day I was smoking my pipe in the house, cleaning my guns while a pheasant slowly roasted to perfection on the fire. Watson commended me on my splendid shot. Cleaning my monocle with a kerchief, I mused about the current state of Britannia. Jessica drawn in by the pungent odor of the pheasant, offered me and Mr. Watson a brandy, then she saw the 2+2=5 shirt I was wearing under my overcoat. She thought I was sooooo Kool.
I can verify that the preceding statements are both Truth and Fact.
Sincerely,
Mr. Watson
Nice usage of pungent.
By the way, were you wearing the kerchief or was Jessica before you cleaned your monocle.
This is great info to know.
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